IIT Faculty Salaries
A lot of trolls and ignorant fools are talking about the salaries for faculty at IIT and other institutes. Just to put those numbers in perspective:
My take-home salary as an Assistant Professor today is approximately two-and-half times less than what my take-home salary was in the final year as a PhD student.
And no, a lot of us do not consider returning to India as a sacrifice or a service to nation; its just a (unreasonably high) pay cut for doing what we enjoy doing. So stop with the Swades references already.
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Update: There is a room for debate on adequateness or inadequateness of salaries. I respect a principled view of our pay as government servants. But arguments should be based on facts, not perceptions.
Update 2: The immediate provocation for this post was comment left on Giridhar’s blog; but there were at least a couple other examples of people expressing opinions that we don’t really earn the salaries we draw from taxpayer’s money (again, valid point if argued on facts, not assumptions).
Update 3: As Giri points out in the comments, I did not account for accommodation. With that, the pay turns out 1.5 time less, not 2.5 times less.
Also, one cannot put a rupee amount on various advantages of staying on campus: (i) low pollution, (ii) less stress, (iii) amenities such as swimming pool and gym, (iv) institute internet access (which means access to databases and journals 24/7).
Dear Niket,
“A lot of trolls and ignorant fools are talking about the salaries for faculty at IIT” Maybe you should link to the comment section of my blog, http://giridharmadras.blogspot.com/2009/03/new-pay-scales-for-iitiisc.html
Also, I am just curious. Currently, your take home salary should be around $500 + accommodation. Was it really 2.5 times higher in the US, if you subtract accommodation?
Giridhar
[…] there is a bit of discussion going on about pay scale revisions for faculty at IIT, IISc and other institutes in India. My final […]
I don’t think that is an appropriate comparison. A more appropriate comparison, if you want to make one is the salary that you would have potentially drawn as an assistant professor in a us school, adjusted for cost of living with what you draw here. Come on, you couldn’t have an equivalent of the “mini meals” in a college cafeteria for $0.7, would you?
What is the cost of living factor: one sees a figure of 4 being quoted i.e., a dollar in the US buys you 4 dollars worth of goods here, though, one wouldn’t know that from the current price of rice (Rs. 40 or close to $0.75 per kilo in the shopping center here roughly what I remember paying for in the promised land) or real estate prices in Chennai or Mumbai ! Other items seem to be follow a factor roughly equal to 1, e.g, a Chennai Mumbai return ticket by flight is approx Rs. 10000 or USD 200. So, while that is a reasonable fraction of your (and mine) salary here, that would be a small teeny fraction of a US salary (student, post doc or faculty).
Moral of the story: Don’t eat so much rice, don’t travel as much, stay home and publish!
It’s not really difficult to put a rupee value on qualityy-of-life-in-campus. Somebody suggested to add a day for every week of your life!
Sridhar
Sridhar,
The industry standard for comparison is 1/3rd to 1/4th pay cut in India compared to that in US.
That is keeping in tune with your $0.75 mini meals (equivalently, $5 for lunch; about 6x factor) and $160 for return airfare to Mumbai (about 1.5x factor).
Taking the approximate salary for Assistant Professors in US as $72000 (a fair estimate for R1 universities), the monthly pre-tax pay should be approximately Rs. 85,000. You can get a decent home in Velachery for Rs. 12,000 per month rent. That amounts to Rs. 73,000 pre tax pay if you live on campus. (I took a 3.5x pay cut; Rs. 50 per dollar exchange rate; did not adjust for 9-month-pay).
Is that a fairer comparison?
Additional day for every week of life is a fairly large over-estimate… for that, you will have to not leave the campus at all.
Niket,
Thanks for the clarification. I was too lazy to do the calculation myself. Yes, the figure of 4 is usually used by MNCs to decide pay in India. And interesting that the pay cut factor in real terms is 3.5. Maybe, you should update the figure in the 2nd para!
A day a week was half in jest. But, thinking it over, it doesn’t sound that bad. If you were to spend an hour commuting each way and work 5 days a week, you save 10 hours a week, more than a working day. Subtract the time you spend outside campus, add time for other benefits (great campus, time spent in run/jog/walk/skate/cycle/swim, get chased by monkeys and leopards, breathe cleaner air) and it’s an ok order of magnitude estimate.
Sridhar
“Moral of the story: Don’t eat so much rice, don’t travel as much, stay home and publish!”
I satisfy two of the above criteria:
I almost never travel, almost not leave the campus at all, stay home and publish but I also eat only curd rice !
All the above calculations miss the most important reasons for choosing a government job: security and pension for life.
“Moral of the story: Don’t eat so much rice, don’t travel as much, stay home and publish!”
I satisfy two of the above criteria:
I almost never travel, almost not leave the campus at all, stay home and publish but I also eat only curd rice !
The factor of 3-4 comes from PPP (purchase parity power) and is not necessarily based on goods. It is also based on services. Suppose you have a maid and a car driver. It will cost you $200 per month in India while it might be $2000 per month in USA.
All the above calculations miss the most important reasons for choosing a government job: security and pension for life.
“I almost never travel, almost not leave the campus at all, stay home and publish but I also eat only curd rice !”
That’s actually 3 out of 4! One could stay home and not publish, couldn’t one?
Sridhar
Most universities in US have good green living environment outside campus area. So living on campus at IITs is not really great factor compared to the living condition in US.
Usually it is smooth 15-20 min drive to school. Fresh air, greener environment.
I agree with Prof Giridhar Madras.
First of all it is silly to compare payscales in US to India. Do jobs in the US pay better? Probably yes. But the real question here is “Will taking up an academic position at an IIT/IISc provide me a decent standard of living in India?” Thankfully, these days the answer to that question is “yes”
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Good point. In most (non-academic) jobs, especially in the US, you are just another expendable underling, and can be slave-driven to work 80-hour weeks or can be laid off anytime if economy goes sour. Whereas as a faculty member in IIT/IISc/NIT you are someone respectable, and need not worry about recessions or how your company is doing financially or how to suck up to your boss.
Assuming things in India are approximately 3x cheaper on average than in US, a 45000Rs per month salary in India = 1000US$, x3 = 3000 US$ per month. Not bad at all. Of course, its not the same thing as being on a 60000 $ job in the US, but it is good by Indian standards and it is nice to see that IIT/IISc/NIT profs (who really deserve more) are atleast getting a somewhat decent pay packet.
Gurmeet,
1. The *current* starting salary (take home) at IIT is half the 45 K amount you quote. Does this information change how you think about our pay?
2. The factor of 1/3 to 1/4 comes because things such as food is an order of magnitude cheaper in India, electronic / household goods cost about the same, etc.
3. The pay is good by Indian standards if you assume both spouses are working. Else, the more appropriate word is “adequate”.
If you’re looking for money, then you should not have done a Ph.D. in the first place. You should have done an MBA.
Your comparison of your salary in India and in the US is unreasonable.
You should ask yourself how many years it would take for you to buy a home in India and in the US with your salary, and pay for your children’s college tution.
The numbers are likely to be not much different.
Stop cribbing, and start living.
Life is much more than the money you possess. You’ll learn this on your own after you go through some ups and downs in life.
Cheers
Totally agree with Koolcat. Money is something in life, and definitely not everything. The amount that is being paid by the Indian government is “adequate” for living and only that much one can ask for. If you are a money-monger, academics is not the place for you.
100 years from now, nobody will ask how much money you earned, how many cars you had, but you’ll be remembered if you make a difference in a single person’s life! Look at the greatest inventors/academicians, they are not remembered for their salary. THE WORLD WILL REMEMBER YOU FOR WHAT YOU HAVE CONTRIBUTED, NOT FOR WHAT YOU GOT FROM IT.
Please put your hands together to make a better India. Don’t use it for fighting.
Dear Kool Kat and Swaprava,
I totally agree with you. Money is not everything. If I wanted to make money, I should not have done a PhD; rather I should have done poorly in my undergrad class, hobnobbed, partied around, and then spend some time at an MBA school and let my life rot doing stuff I do not like.
I rather chose to be very selfish, did what I liked - became reasonably good at it, and from all the offers decided to go to the school that will pamper me with a very good standard of living while still allowing me to do the things I like. Do I deserve it? Absolutely not. Work is supposed to be painful, right? Why should you get paid for doing things that you enjoy, teaching courses that come easy to you, publishing papers only on topics that interest you.
Did I even consider an Indian school? No. May be they would not even have interviewed me although Stanford, Caltech, Princeton, Cornell did. But that is besides the point. Why would I not consider an Indian school?
Let us stop kidding ourselves. If I had done badly and taken up a regular engineering job in India, I would have got three times the pay easily. But that is not what hurts badly. In a society where your rank is based on the amount you earn, where people riding bicycles are scorned by those driving four wheeled gas guzzlers, where economic status defines the treatment you get, things will get to you eventually (the society will make sure of that).
The days of the monks and the sadhoos are gone. You need not be too materialistic but at a current academic salary in India, I would not be able to have a dinner with my colleagues at conferences ($25 is too much for a meal).
Let us leave the money part aside temporarily.
The good students tend to go outside. There is no core recognized group of people anywhere - sorry to break the bubble. For comparison, look at the top notch theoretical computer scientists in Israel or the combinatorialists in Hungary.
Can one correct the situation: Absolutely. Buy out a handful of extremely respected top Indian researcers for the best US universities. Give them an unlimited budget to set up a couple of top notch programs in India; and in five to ten years that will pay dividends. Why? Because I see that happening in China and I cannot see why it will not happen in India. (Of course, the ones you buy initially should be hand picked).
I am not a money-monger but I am a realist. I am not patronized by kings like in old years, and I need to make my own living. I am willing to take a pay-cut so that I can do what I like and what I am good at. But if among those places that will offer me such jobs, if the Indian schools pay a miniscule amount, then why should I come back?
To Niket: Ok lets say a newly hired faculty in India gets half of 45K = ~ 23K, roughly $500. Multiply by x3 to account for things being cheaper in India = $1500. Add in that you get campus accomodation (If you’re at IIT/IISc/NIT) and other perks that US profs don’t get - thats probably worth atleast another $500. = $2000. A guy starting out as an assistant prof at a US univ gets 60K USD annual = 5K monthly. Take out US taxes and social security/medicare tax and its $3500 per month, vs $2000 equivalent in India. Is the US prof getting paid better? Sure. But the point that I was making is that is the desi prof at IIT/IISc getting something really pathetic in comparison? Not really, if you also count other factors like job security, respect, work-life balance, etc. Again, if money is 100% of your goal, go get an MBA or a software job, and be someone’s bitch working 60-80 hrs per week and worrying about layoffs. But for talented individuals who wish to do academic jobs, the situation in India as of today thankfully is quite better. Do I wish that desi profs got even more? Absolutely. But what they are getting now is not bad at all, and definitely a huge improvement over 10-15 years ago.
Responses welcomed.
I think some of you are quoting rather outdated salary numbers.
From my own experience (I’m an assistant professor in a prominent US university) the average 9-month salary for an engineering assistant professor (top 40) is approx $90,000. This corresponds to $120,000 if they can get paid over the summer (and most do). Faculty in sciences make a bit less (~ $80,000).
Standard increments average out at around 3%, and tenure is at 5 years.
Correct me if I am wrong. After the new pay scale proposed by UGC I was under the notion that faulty members are finally getting good compensation. I saw some ads in The Hindu opporutnities column where I saw a posting for Assistant Prof Radiology in some private college (UGC norm pay) for 1.15 - 1.5 Lakhs per month.
If this is the pay scale what is the difference between the US Salary and Indian salary. They boil down to be the same
Correct me if I am wrong
I have been in top school in USA for long time but deciding
to go back to India. Lots of factor on this decision. Certainly
things are much better in our country now. I go offer in a research institute in india with starting salary close to ~80k/month. Only two class to teach per week. DO NOT COMPARE the salary you could get in industry. In industry you don’t do what you would like to do. You don’t work 3hr/week (teaching 2 class per week) in industry. Your boss doesn’t come everyday and say “oh, you know the company is not doing weel, there is possibility we may fire few people”. Then you go back home everyday and yell at your family for nothing. Just to let you know, in US universities even if you are already tenured, there is little chance you get fired (but not in india). Every year in US universities the faculties are evaluated by students, if the students give you bad evaluation for 3-4 years continuously, then you are gone (bad luck). It happened to one of a senior full prof i know of. The only thing i would worry about when going back to india is i hope to have good work culture and professionalism which is way way behind compared to US. Above all, if you really need lot of lot of money, don’t go to academic. Two choice: Go to industry, get good money, enjoy the challenge you face everyday (including chance to get fired and take up the pressure), OR go to academic, peaceful life, no boss, not much pressure. Choice is yours. I chose mine and i believe i made the right choice.
I was initially going to quote actual numbers, but did not. But here it goes:
My monthly take-home pay is 23K. If you want to argue, base your arguments on 23K/month; not on 45K or 80K/month.
I will write a separate post on some of the not-so-true things that have been mentioned in the comments here.
And no, even after the pay commission scales are implemented, I will NOT be making close to 1 lakh per month.
BTW, its interesting that email I sent to SS bounced back.
I also wonder veracity of his arguments:
1. A starting position in Government research institute or lab does not pay anywhere close to 80K/month.
2. Tenured faculty do not get fired for poor teaching evaluations or research non-performance. They may get fired for plagiarism / dishonesty, harassment, etc.
3. Assuming SS has an advanced degree from US, I am actually surprised how s/he makes the claim “academics = peaceful life”. Academic freedom is quite a different beast than “peaceful life”.
4. Teaching 3 hours per week does not mean thats all we work. I don’t know how a person who has been “in top school in USA for long time” could make such a statement.
This just proves the main point of my post: people here argue on THEIR PERCEPTION of what we do / earn, than what we actually do / earn.
1. Yes, the govt institute pay ~80K but it depends where you started. If you start as asst prof. then you don’t make…but if you start as associate then you make…..
2. I have seen tenured people get fired…although he was about 75 or so…may be the dept didn’r want him..but everybody
body know that he got fired because he wasn’t as good as a teacher he used to be….but i can tell you there is certainly no 100% security in any job in usa unless you get nobel prize…
3. Absolutely not. If you really want to work in academic then you would enjoy the freedom you get…that was my point.
Tell me what beast you are talking about. Ask you prof in india (somebody who really like research and also an honest person).
4. Hmmm….teaching 3 hrs is for sure whether you like it or not. I was comparing with industry where it is more than 40hr/week whether you like it or not. Obviously, academic people most often work more than 60 works but that what they enjoy….
I am not sure if we are talking on same footing…i am guessing you are talking on different context….
See if you want to work in industry , nobody stops you. So also same in academic. Its very personal. One thing i should say to people too much worried about saving lot of lot of money,…don’t go to academic.
1. The revised salaries are not yet implemented. Once they are, 80K/month for a full professor is perhaps correct. But as of today, no faculty in our department earns anywhere close to that number.
2. I know of two cases where tenured faculty were fired. In one, it was because he plagiarized in his funding proposal; in another because health of the ageing prof would not allow him to teach… not because teaching feedback was poor. In the latter case, he still retained an office, albeit a much smaller one.
Its not impossible to fire a tenured faculty; just that its very rare. Even Behe, the proponent of intelligent design, is still a faculty at Lehigh.
3. Yes, academic freedom, teaching and research are the reasons a lot of us (including you, I guess) chose this field. I knew about the low pays even before I decided to try for a faculty position (let alone actually taking one).
4. What the heck are you talking about? Sure there are folks who will work no more than 3 hr/week and then a tiny bit more; but there are folks in industry who would only be on their desk 40 hr/week without really being productive. Yes, the threshold is lower in academics.
But a lot of us spend 8-10 hours per week preparing for those three; a few more hours designing and grading assignments and exams. We have administrative responsibilities. And most importantly, MS/PhD students to advise and own research to do.
———————-
There are a few folks in our institute who are married with one/two kids and taking care of their ailing parents. The faculty is the only earning member. Its difficult for them not to worry about saving money.
Taking couple of years break to work in an industry and then returning back to academics is not common and therefore viewed a bit negatively in India.
My father is a government employee. Whenever he rants about his government job perks and freedom I tend to show him my job offer letter (from a software company) and we both laugh at it. I guess we both understand the difference between a 12 hr 5-day life style of a software engineer and a 6 day government job lifestyle, and the pains associated with both
My question is didn’t you people knew that before? Else why are you comparing US and Indian life styles?
And secondly don’t IITs have a good mechanisms for industrial consultancy?
How about thinking about the likes of :-
http://www.iiit.net/people/faculty
http://www.iiit.net/content/faculty-openings
At least you won’t have to face the whims and fancies of government bureaucracy.
This post is now a little dated. The main argument here was not whether the salaries are adequate or not… but that people argue without knowing the actual figures.
Comparison with US was NOT made on one-to-one basis. I compared my salary as a faculty in India with my salary as a final year PhD student in US. So, no one was saying “hey look, US pays more.”
I will write another post at some time to address some comments raised here.
please can u give to me more detailed
Please visit Prof. Giridhar Madras’s blog and links therein for a detailed discussion of all things related to starting an academic career in India. Link:
http://giridharmadras.blogspot.com/2010/04/pinned-post-for-prospective-faculty-to.html
Hello,
Would someone please clarify this issue to the lay people by posting an article on my online journal - www.stopmanufacturingus.com. We have a lot of readers in my journal and they’d like to know more about this. Btw it is a journal about the Indian education system initiated by students.
It is a good way to reach towards students like me and motivate us to pursue careers in research!
And also you could write any other article relating to education in there.
Niket, if you’re interested in writing an article for us, please contact me at smu@stopmanufacturingus.com
Thanks!